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Information and links on how to spot a good breeder. . . and the bad ones. . .

After an interesting conversation with a fellow Great Dane breeder, I decided to make some changes with the  wording on this page. . . with breed legislation in the forefront and our rights as breeders in jeopardy I feel that more emphasis needs to be on how a breeder manages their program and less on name labeling and finger pointing.  Most of us can make decisions for our selves and I think that more people need to take the time to think about who they are getting a puppy from and use their pocket books as the main tool.  Don't let over zealous political figures and SO CALLED animal rights advocates make decisions for you.

We put this page together hoping to change the minds through education.
  Below are guidelines, stories, links to other web sights. 
Black Great Dane
Something to think about:
  ANY  Great Dane pedigree with absolutely no AKC  champions in it is likely to not be a well bred dog. 
Some one that NEVER breeds to a Champion is likely NOT A GOOD BREEDER.
 The reason: Responsible Great Dane  breeders will not breed to them!

 Boasting that a pedigree has 1 or 2 champions in the 4th-5th generation is NOTHING to brag about. 
Do keep in mind that Champions from out side of the US are not included on AKC pedigree's. 

Truth in advertising: AKC Great Dane Puppies OR AKC dogs in general. . .
The AKC is not a CLUB. 
It is a record keeping facility. 
They record and monitor pure bred sports and keep a chronicle of all registered breedings. 
There is no "club" to belong to.


  There are many people with many opinions on line.  We are all entitled to our own, this is America (last check) . 
However be wary of the breeder that knocks all  conventional wisdom. 
Think about it:  if a breeder refuses to give " the AKC there ransom" and claims this is why they do not have AKC registered litters, be aware that registration fees are VERY low.  If the $32 fee is breaking the bank, what else aren't they taking care of?  Most likely their disdain is due to  being sanctioned or even having there right to breed revoked by the AKC.  

Think About it Again:  If a breeder knocks other breeders that have health testing performed ( hips AT LEAST should be done in Both Great Danes and Pembroke Welsh Corgis) then the likely reason is they have had dogs that have not passed that they wanted to breed regardless the results. 

Think about it once more:  Any breeder that bad mouth conformation or any other competition is likely to not have a dog that could ever compete.  YES it is a beauty contest, but it also shows that you are breeding dogs that are built like they should be, have personalities you want to see, have no disqualification's listed in the standard.  Breeders should be PROUD to compete!

What does it take to breed a Great Dane?  Here is a link we put together that includes SOME of the costs (CLICK HERE)

There is no such thing as a Designer Dane or Unique Great Dane colors, they are not worth more. . .
they are not special, rare or any other descriptive word you can think of. 
There is CORRECT and INCORRECT.  
INCORRECT colors should not be bred, when produced they SHOULD be spayed or neutered and loved as a pet. 
MOST of the incorrect colors have no health problems associated with them BUT some do. 
Whites ( double Merles) and Pieds CAN have eye and hearing problems ( among other things)
Great Danes come in several colors  Black, Blue, Mantle, Harlequin, Fawn, Brindle.  Merle, White and Pied can also be thrown in some harlequin breedings.
Any other color is a mix between the family groups or a recessive lurking from the past.  AGAIN: Correct and incorrect.  When it comes to showing ( and your breeder SHOULD be showing) you can only show correct colors in the ring.  There are 6.  Merle, White, Pied and any other color can NOT be shown.  With in the acceptable colors there are also a wide verity of patterns.
Here is a link to more information on great dane color

                  Harlequin Great Dane

ONE MORE WARNING:  If there is no reference to a Humans name, where they live ( especially the state and town) This should be a GIANT red flag. 

There are web sights you can go to and run peoples names through to see if they have ever had a charge brought against them for animal cruelty.  The sight is not perfect but I do use it on every single person that is looking to get a puppy from me, any breeder that would like to breed to one of my dogs AND anyone that I am interested in possibly getting a dog from. 
Here is the link to one of those sights: http://www.pet-abuse.com/pages/cruelty_database.php .
    
Great Article on breeding and ethics


                                                                     Harlequin Great Dane
Growing up:
When I was younger I wanted to work with animals.  I volunteered for the local shelters, I worked with wild life rescue and this evolved to working in pet stores. ( shelters and rescue do not pay you, I was a teenager, money seemed important)  Though many Pet Stores have evolved, in California there are still many Petlands and other pet stores that carry indiscriminately bred puppies.   While I was working these pet stores I was asked to ignore certain signs of sickness, hide problems, lie to prospective customers, forced to sell a certain number of pets ever single week.  On several occasions I opened shop to find puppies and kittens dead.  I watched as mass quantities of puppies were picked up and delivered from airports.  A local vet came and looked them over and if they did become ill we treated them in house, if hospitalization was necessary: they were euthanized.  Though I was very young ( under 18) I knew this was wrong.  I quit Petland and worked for several other pet stores before I discovered they were all pretty much the same.  Where I was you could not work in a veterinary hospital until you were over the age of 18 ( it is actually considered a dangerous work place in California)
 Once I turned 18 I saw the other side.   I then saw the contempt that most veterinarians have for anyone that breeds.  For a long time I thought that all breeders were evil. 
When I moved to Texas I was exposed to many different types of breeders.   I met Cat breeders that would do anything to for their animals, I learned about health testing and saw heart ache when breeders had to make hard decisions to spay their Champion bitch.  I met Veterinarians that showed and bred.  I learned more about genetics, fell in love with conformation and obedience training.  I found my breed ( though I had already owned Corgis and brought Chelsea with me from California) and began to develop an ethical breeding program.   It has not been easy, we have taken our lumps and are trying everything we can to help people that are involved in the breed through kindness and education.  You can't change everyone's mind,  but we can give you the tools to make your own decisions.
                                           Mantle Great Dane
    Newspaper Puppies: why not to buy from the local paper.
    Are all breeders using the news paper bad breeders?  No.  The sad truth is that most are.  Before I had a computer I advertised in the local papers.  This was also before I had a waiting list, before I TRULY knew what I was doing, and  I was not much of a breeder myself. . .  I had the best intentions, as do many people that start out in the breed.  I soon found that not only was I getting phone calls from some very strange people, but I also realized (quickly, thankfully) that some of the people contacting me were fronts for pet stores, auctions and even some whole sale brokers.  I sat back and started to LOOK at the adds in the paper. . . .I noticed some strange things.
When you look in the paper for a puppy, look at the phone numbers, many times there is the same number over and over again for several different breeds: were do you think MASS PRODUCERS advertise?
  Swap Meet Puppies, Flea Market Puppies, Puppies sold in parking lots,
 WHERE DO YOU THINK THEY COME FROM?

This was an awakening.

Selecting A Breeder: What to look for. . . .
Puppy selection consideration


What health testing should you look for?
 Great Dane
Pem. Corgi



Pied Great Dane
Red Flags:
  • Breeder does not screen for diseases and offers no health guarantee. (What should Danes or Corgis be screened for for?)
  • Kennel is dirty and untidy. (What should you expect?)
  • Several litters are born each year. (Several is defined here as some one that ALWAYS has a puppy available) MOST of the time you will not be able to contact a breeder and get a puppy TODAY.  If they happen to have a litter and the one you are looking for is available, then yes, but most of the time it may be months until a litter is expected.
  • Breeder has no written health records of the litter. (required by the AKC)
  • Puppies or kittens are taken from the mother before 6 weeks of age. (against both Great Dane and Pem. Corgi National breed club guide lines.)
Questions to ask a Breeder
  • How long have you been breeding?
  • What sort of disease screening do you do?
  • Do you plan on improving this breed? How?
  • What breed clubs do you belong to?
  • What kind of contract or guarantee do you offer?
  • Can I return my pet if he develops a genetic disease?
  • How do you socialize the animals?
  • May I contact others who bought from you?
  • What kind of papers do you have on the dog I want? (what does this mean?)
  • Have the Puppies received any vaccinations?
  • What are you doing to ensure your puppies do not end up in a shelter or rescue?

Questions a Breeder may ask YOU (so be prepared.):
  • Do you live in a house or apartment? (Some dogs are too active for small spaces.) If you have a house, does it have a fenced yard?
  • Do you rent or own? (Some landlords do not allow pets.)
  • Do you have children or other pets? How might they get along with a new dog?
  • Do you know how much it costs to raise a puppy or kitten?
  • Is this your first dog or cat? (If so, it doesn't mean you shouldn't get one! Some breeds, especially dog breeds, are just not suitable for first time owners.)
  • How many hours will your puppy be left alone?
  • Be prepared to leave a couple of references.
  • Be prepared to fill out an application.

WHAT CAN YOU DO TO HELP?


DON'T:
  • buy a pet from a pet store
  • through the news paper ads
  •  at a flea market
  •  OR in a grocery store parking lot. 
THESE ARE LIKELY NOT FROM REPUTABLE BREEDERS!

  • DO adopt your next pet from your local shelter or breed rescue group
  • Or if you decide to purchase from a breeder, make sure they are reputable.
  • All reputable breeders provide detailed genealogical information dating
    back several generations, including HEALTH INFORMATION AND TESTING
  • will have the mother available for you to meet
    (who will appear clean, well cared for and happy BUT will likely be thin. . .some times with a thin coat, this is all part of the drain on the mother)
  •  should always provide health guarantee and may require that you spay or neuter your pet as
    a part of the purchase agreement.
DO:
  • DO educate others. Tell your family, friends and neighbors about the plight
    of dogs bred indiscriminately and encourage them to buy from shelters
    and rescue groups and reputable breeders.
  • DON'T FALL FOR THE NATIONAL RHETORIC! 
  • ASK THE BREEDER HOW THEY ARE HELPING KEEP THEIR DOGS OUT OF RESCUE!
  • DO spay and neuter your own pets and encourage others to do so.
 
                                               Mantle Great Dane

Recognizing an unethical breeder

What do breeders want to know?

Choosing a puppy

10 Rules of
Ethical breeders


Questions to
ask a breeder


Adopting an
older dog


Merle Great Dane
Mantle Great Dane


<>TEXAS ANIMAL CRUELTY LAWS:

Section 42.09 of the Texas Penal Code prohibits the intentional cruel
treatment of animals. Under current Texas Law, cruel treatment of
animals is forbidden. The following actions define cruel punishment:

1. Torturing an animal
2. Failing to provide food, care or shelter
3. Abandoning an animal
4. Transporting or confining an animal in a cruel manner
5. Killing, seriously injuring or poisoning an animal
6. Causing an animal to fight with another
7. Using a live animal as a lure in a dog race
8. Tripping a horse
9. Injuring an animal belonging to another person
10. Seriously overworking an animal.

House Bill 653 and Senate Bill 1724, commonly known as “Loco’s Law,”
went into effect September 1, 2001, making animal cruelty a felony and
punishable by a $10,000 fine and up to two years in jail. The law was
named for a puppy called Loco, whose eyes were intentionally gouged
out. Prior to Loco’s Law, animal cruelty was not considered a felony
under Texas law. Today, animal cruelty convictions are classified as
either a felony or misdemeanor.

Two types of laws protect animals from cruelty: Criminal laws and
civil laws. The laws are similar but differ in the penalties they
impose.

If prosecuted in a criminal case, a person may face penalties
including fines, jail or both. Those under the age of 18 are also
required to undergo counseling if convicted of animal cruelty. In
a civil case, a person convicted of animal cruelty may have to
pay damages to the animals owner and/or have their animals
taken away.

Texas criminal laws only apply to domesticated animals, such as
house pets and livestock defined as “domesticated living creature(s)
or any wild living creature previously captured” and subject to a
person's care and control. The scope of civil laws are broader and do
not differentiate between domestic and wild animals; however, civil
statutes adopt a much narrower definition of what constitutes cruelty.
Therefore, people could engage in actions that are not prosecutable
under Texas criminal laws, but they would be held liable for their actions under civil laws.

Compared to other states, Texas’ animal cruelty statutes are very
narrow in scope because they exclude certain types of animals—including
circus animals, wild animals and animals used in experiments—from
protection from animal cruelty laws.

Section 42.10 of the Texas Penal Code prohibits dog fighting, and also
deems offensive such activities as attending a dog fight as a spectator,
or participating in the earnings or operation of a dog fighting facility.

Sources: www.animallaw.info, www.capitol.state.tx.us, Texas Health and Safety
Code Ann. 821.001

Why look for a registered dog?

  •   MANY OF THE SO CALLED "CLUBS" BELOW APPEAR TO BE NOTHING BUT FRONTS FOR UNETHICAL BREEDERS, FIGHTING DOG BREEDS, AND PET STORES TRYING TO LOOK LIKE LEGITIMATE BREEDERS.
  •  NOTICE THAT MOST BREEDER LINKS DO NOT EVER SHOW PEDIGREE INFORMATION.  
  • THEY DO NOT SHOW OFA INFORMATION OR OTHER HEALTH INFORMATION.  
  • LOOK AT THEIR PAGES AND NOTICE THAT THEY MOSTLY ONLY CONTAIN PUPPIES AND NEVER ADULT PHOTO'S. 
  • SOME OF THE CLUBS LISTED APPEAR TO BE LEGITIMATE, THOUGH ARE OFTEN CROSS REFERENCED THROUGH  SUSPICIOUS SIGHTS.
  •  SOME OF THE SIGHTS CLAIM TO BE THE "FASTEST WAY TO SELL YOUR PUPPY" OTHERS ADVERTISE "LOST YOUR PAPERS? WE CAN HELP YOU!"


BLack Great Dane 
MAKE SURE YOU KNOW WHAT YOU ARE GETTING: CHECK THESE LINKS OUT FOR MORE INFORMATION FROM THE AKC


LIMITED REGISTRATION
AKC REGISTRATION CERTIFICATE
DOGS SOLD WITH OUT PAPERS
CONTRACTS
NAMING YOUR PUPPY
AKC Pet Health care Plan
Where to register your dogs Microchip

web counter

NOT TO BE CONFUSED WITH THE AKC:
a. American Canine Association ACA
THIS REGISTRY CLAIMS TO BE A HEALTH REGISTRY, IT ASKS YOU TO TAKE THEIR FORM TO YOUR VET AND HAVE HIM CHECK THE HEART EYES AND TEETH OF YOUR PET :

"If your veterinarian can certify that your dog is free of the genetic defects in those areas, he or she will sign on the appropriate sections of the form. "
 
AFTER YOU SEND THIS FORM IN TO THEM THEY WILL THEN CERTIFY YOU AS A RESPONSIBLE OWNER AND GIVE YOUR DOG A HEALTH CERTIFICATION NUMBER.

THE "BREEDERS" THAT ARE ASSOCIATED WITH THIS GROUP (IN TEXAS):

Petland

108 Central Park Mall

San Antonio, TX  78216

Phone: 1-210-377-2245

 

Jerry's Perfect Pets

750 Sundland Park Drive

El Paso, TX  79912

Phone: 915-581-3225


EVERY SINGLE BREEDER LISTING IS FOR A PET STORE
NOT RECOGNIZED BY THE AKC
b. American Dog Breeders Association ADBA
An exclusive association of American Pit Bull Terrier breeders
NOT RECOGNIZED BY THE AKC
c. American Field Dog Registry
THIS REGISTRY IS FOR FIELD DOGS ONLY AND IS
RECOGNIZED BY THE AKC
d. Continental Kennel Club CKC
KNOWN AS THE "HASSLE FREE" KENNEL CLUB.
 CKC REGISTRATION IS NOT RECOGNIZED BY THE AKC
e. American Pet Registry APR or APRI
THIS CLUB SEES ITSELF IN DIRECT  COMPETITION WITH THE AKC.  THEY HAVE AN OPEN REGISTRY, THIS MEANS THAT YOU CAN REGISTER "MUTTS" AS A BREED AND GET PAPERS.
f. American Rare Breed Association ARBA
A REGISTRY OF RARE BREEDS AND MAN MADE BREEDS, MANY AWAITING AKC MEMBERSHIP
THERE IS SOME AFFILIATION WITH THE AKC, The purpose of this club is to get  non breeds registered as a legitimate breed
g. Kemmer Stock Breeders Association
A FOUNDATION GROUP FOR TREEING COON HOUNDS
h. Federation Cynological International FCI
BASED IN BELGIUM, THE FCI IS RECOGNIZED BY THE AKC AND IS A CREDIBLE SERVICE.  DOGS THAT ARE FCI REGISTERED CAN BE REGISTERED BY THE AKC
i. National Cur & Feist Breeders Association
NO INFORMATION CAN BE FOUND AT THIS TIME.
j. National Kennel Club NKC
  • To improve breeding of purebred dogs of all breeds establishing a stud file of all dogs registered with NKC, by encouragement to breeders to use only the best conformation and temperament in their breeding program.
  • To promote competition in various fields of dog-oriented activities in a friendly sporting atmosphere.
  • To better canine life by making owners aware of the new ideas in dog care.
  • To encourage registration of all purebred dogs so that ancestry and traits both desirable and undesirable can be identified.
  • To encourage dog owners to learn better methods of care, feeding, and training of dogs.
  • To promote enjoyment of leisure time in association with dogs and dog activities.
  • To promote conservation of our natural resources through combined efforts by dog clubs.
  • By restocking game birds and animals where unwise acts have reduced their numbers below desired levels.
  • Protection of animals against poachers and greedy hunters.
  • Stimulate hunting for pleasure and champion points instead of hides of animals.
  • Educate the public to respect and appreciate the efforts of the state game and fish commissions.


k. Original Mountain Cur Breeders Association
NEW BREED ASSOCIATION, NOT SANCTIONED BY THE AKC

l.


United Kennel Club UKC
THE UKC IS THE SECOND OLDEST KENNEL CLUB IN THE UNITED STATES.  THE UKC IS NOT RECOGNIZED BY THE AKC.  ( TITLES ARE NOT RECOGNIZED, THOUGH SOME FOUNDATION STOCK REGISTRY IS) THE UKC PROVIDES A FAMILY ORIENTED ATMOSPHERE FOR THE HOBBY EXHIBITIONER.  

"The mission of United Kennel Club is to be the world's best registry of purebred dogs, to offer our customers the most efficient and creative services possible, to use our data to help our customers breed the best dogs in the world and to create a wide spectrum of performance and conformation events in which those dogs can prove their instincts and heritage."  

THEY OFFER A WIDE RANGE OF CONFORMATION, AGILITY , OBEDIENCE AND HUNT TESTS, NO PROFESSIONAL HANDLERS ALLOWED. THEY ARE A LEGITIMATE ORGANIZATION, THOUGH THEY ARE NOT RECOGNIZED BY THE AKC, DOGS REGISTERED AND HAVING PAPERS SOLELY FROM THE UKC CAN NOT BE REGISTERED WITH THE AKC.


m. Universal Kennel Club (NOTE: I have left this link up though it does not work at this time)
BILLED AS "THE FASTEST WAY TO SELL PUPPIES"
NOT RECOGNIZED BY THE AKC
n. World Wide Kennel Club
THEY ADVERTISE : HAVE YOU LOST YOUR PAPERS? HAVE NO HISTORY ON YOUR DOGS? WORLD KENNEL CLUB CAN HELP YOU!
NOT RECOGNIZED BY THE AKC
                                
Great Dane Health Screening: Recommended by the Great Dane club of America
Corgi Health Screening : Recommended by the Pembroke Welsh Corgi Club of America

Harlequin Great Dane
    THE GDCA SAYS: ALL dogs and bitches to be bred should be  x-rayed prior to breeding and declared free of hip dysplasia by a knowledgeable Veterinarian or the OFA.  

    They highly encourage any and all technology available be used to screen all animals used for breeding according to the known problems with in the breed.  
GDCA states that puppies should not be released until they are AT LEAST 7 (SEVEN) weeks of age.

    SO: at the very least hips need to be done.  
    Even better:
    Hearts should be screened ( #1 killer of Danes now)
    Thyroid should be screened
    Eyes should be tested.
    If all of the above is done the dog/bitch will receive a CHIC #, this number represents the breeder's commitment to have all recommended testing performed on a breeding animal.
       
        Elbows can be done also.



PWCCA SAYS: Bitches to be bred must be in robust health. Eyes and hips should be checked and found to be within normal limits. A bitch is not to be bred prior to 1 year of age or older than 8 years, nor should she produce more than 6 litters in her lifetime. A bitch should not be bred more than 2 out of 3 consecutive heat seasons.

A male should not be used at stud unless his hips and eyes are checked and found to be within normal limits.
ALSO:  They do not recommend releasing puppies until they ar 12 (TWELVE ) weeks old.


SO: at the very least hips and eyes should be screened.

Further testing:

Corgi's SHOULD be screened for Von Willibrand's using the Genetic test available.

What should you expect when you visit the breeder's home?Fawn Great Dane

Most breeders do not have large kennels or have a commercial type set up.   That is a misconception many people have about many breeders.  Most have a happy home they have opened up to there dogs and there houses reflect this.   Many times this is not a conventional situation.  There are crate's were the dinning room should be, baby gates in the hall way or blocking the kitchen, toys around the house.  Be realistic.  The house should be clean, sanitary and all animals should appear well taken care of.  Do not expect perfection.  Expect a little chaos, a different life style then you are used to, but one that conforms to having happy healthy pets.  Also remember: this is their home.   On the flip side, having a kennel does not make a breeder bad either.  If you have multiple dogs going in to heat and even one male, well sometimes they need to be separated.

Blue Great Dane"PAPERS: what do they mean?"
AKC Registration papers.  This is what they mean.  They are the document that lets you know were your pet came from, who the parents were, who the breeder is and the only document that will allow you to breed you dog.  AKC papers are the only acceptable papers there are ( with exception to breeds bred out side of the US).  Any other type are worthless.  Any other type offered are done so under false pretenses.  The reason they are done: the dog's that were bred were bred illegally.  This means that the owner had a contract to not breed the dog, did so any ways, could not get AKC papers so they "purchased" papers from one of the above registries in order to "look" legitimate.  Anyone who would do this is not a trust worthy person.  They are lying and not some one you want to get a pet from.

Black Great Dane
  Health information and Veterinary visits
Both Corgi and Dane puppies should have been to the Vet with in 3 to 6 days after birth in order to have dew claws removed  and for corgi's there tails removed.  
 
According to the GDCA puppies should not be released from the breeder until they are 7-8 weeks of age.

  According to the PWCCA puppies should not be released until 12 weeks of age.  At this point both should have seen a vet AGAIN for there check up prior to leaving the home.   Vaccinations, heart worm prevention, flea prevention, and intestinal worming should have been performed at there scheduled times and be up to date when the puppy leaves the breeder.   A fecal floatation should be done to make sure that the puppy is clear of all intestinal parasites.  The breeder should provide all of this information and a schedule for you to follow to finish all of the required vaccinations and worming.   They should provide a feeding schedule with information on the type of food they are feeding.
 

You should be provided with a 4 generation pedigree for your puppy. (color marked).  You should be provided with all health information ( copies of health tests performed on the parents).  Information on training your new puppy should also be provided.  
 
A written health guaranty should be provided by the breeder. Breeders should also provide a spay/neuter  contract that both you and the breeder sign.





Many graphic's are provided by:
link

DISCLAIMER: This WEB SIGHT is owned and maintained by TTS Great Danes.  We strive to display correct & up to date information.   We are human and do make mistakes.  Please feel free to contact us if you believe we  have made an error.    Our pages and information are based on our experience,  OUR opinions and information obtained from OUR research , OTHER breeders experience and research  and OUR own Veterinarians.
Please remember: Links and information ANYWHERE on "the web" can be uploaded with any information anyone wants to write.  Any article can be published and there are plenty of opinions out there.  
If it is too good to be true: it is.  
If it is crazy and outlandish- stay away from it.
   Please do your research before purchasing a Great Dane.
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